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Thread: Battlefield 4

  1. #21
    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    It does have an editor, I've seen screenshots of it. How do you think DiCE made BF3? Thing is that ot's never been released to the public, or even prepared for public release.
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  2. #22
    Roll-with-a-hole 3agle's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    well yeah, the tools for the creation of the games is there, but it's not as though they can just package them up and send them out to fans saying 'there you go, have some mod tools'.
    Though I agree they should have done something about modding, even if it's just custom maps.
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  3. #23
    Now even more spooky!
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    They do have an editor they could release, but DiCE simply said fuck you community, the tools are to complicated so we are not releasing them.

  4. #24
    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    Quote Originally Posted by 3agle View Post
    ...but it's not as though they can just package them up and send them out to fans saying 'there you go, have some mod tools'.
    Why not? It's not as if the source SDK isn't buggy as shit.
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  5. #25
    Roll-with-a-hole 3agle's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Boylee View Post
    Why not? It's not as if the source SDK isn't buggy as shit.
    Because the tools they use to make the game with will not be suited for modding, it would allow complete deconstruction of the game, hacking would become commonplace, the developers would lose control of their game along with numerous other problems.
    It's all well and good pointing to Source as an example, but that was built for the purpose of a distributed modding system for the engine and games.

    I'm not saying it's not possible to do, it certainly is, but it would require them to create the software to do so, it's not a case of them giving out the tools they used to make the game as is.
    It wouldn't be a problem if they had designed the engine from the start to be a modifiable platform from the beginning, like Source was, but not all engines are created this way (it does require a lot more effort to create an engine for this purpose).

    Considering the BF games have been using the Frostbite engine for a little while now, I'd imagine it was pretty natural to continue to do so, and the engine was simply not made for modding in mind, I don't think anyone really expected mod support from the beginning, imo it was a little strange that there was so much outcry for the support, but after the stupid response from DiCE/EA or whoever it was, it seems to have grown into a bigger issue.

    I think most games would prosper from mod support, but they do have to be built that way, it's not an afterthought kind of thing. I think part of the problem in this particular case is that the engine is owned by EA, and they are mighty protective of their tech, especially when it contains technology from some of their other franchises, like FIFA. It's kind of an 'ifs and buts' argument at this point, since it's down to developer(and maybe publisher) decisions at the end of the day. But basically it's not as easy as the developer tools being the same as mod tools(in most cases). I think things like Source, Unity, and other open, free license engines may give false impressions of how to create games in enclosed environments.
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  6. #26
    Administrator Apoc's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    Quote Originally Posted by 3agle View Post
    It wouldn't be a problem if they had designed the engine from the start to be a modifiable platform from the beginning, like Source was, but not all engines are created this way (it does require a lot more effort to create an engine for this purpose).
    this is basically what I said in defence of Battlefields lack of modding...

    and you countered with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by 3agle View Post
    It's worth noting the majority of games are not made in specially made games engines, and most licensed game engines have tools that support modding, meaning there is much less preventing developers adding mod support.

    Make up your mind!

  7. #27
    Roll-with-a-hole 3agle's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    It's not contrary at all.

    It takes a lot of effort to create an engine with the purpose of it being a secure but modable system for the end user to use.
    This is different from my statement that licensed game engines (note, ones that are already made, and developers buy licenses for), sometimes have mod support as a part of their functionality.

    Not all engines are the same and not all games go through the same development process.
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  8. #28
    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    Hardly strange that people wanted mod support given the community content produced for BF2.

    I still think that a large developer backed by a huge publisher could very, very easily put together a basic level editor for a game like BF3 if it was an objective ratified by the business management. Trouble is that EA are about 10 years behind Valve and cling to an outdated business model that requires they release a new game in the same franchise at least once a year.

    I do hear what you're saying Bagle, adding an editor to BF3 is no mean feat, but if the development scope had included community support this entire discussion would be moot. Instead a decision was made somewhere along the line to make sure that a truly cohesive community could never be formed around BF3 so that BF4 could take all it's players once they got bored.

    I'm aware that Valve are the exception rather than the rule, I just wish a few more publishers would take a leaf out of their book, and not just by releasing a steam clone.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    I've grown tired of Battlefield games, BF3 really disappointed me, couldn't care less about a forth. Plus, releasing it this early, There will barely be any changes, just a story, which like all BF games won't be very catching. Also, this is probably why BF3 is so unbalanced, I loved BFBC2, apart from the crappy F2P BF's it was the first one I got in to. Lastly, I thought that stupid Premium thing was a rip, and this is exactly what I expected. You won't get your moneys worth before you find something else to do.

  10. #30
    Roll-with-a-hole 3agle's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    I'd just like to state that my personal opinion is that the majority of games would benefit from modding, and that although DiCE were almost certainly shoehorned into their closed off system by EA, it would have benefited from a longer development cycle and a focus on user generated content. Of course no developer under EA is going to get that much trust and freedom, unfortunately.
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  11. #31
    Administrator Apoc's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    Quote Originally Posted by 3agle View Post
    It's not contrary at all.
    Obviously all game engines are different, my point is that:

    Originally, you quoted my post saying that its not always cheap or easy to add mod support....you posted examples of why adding mod support is easy.

    Then, you quoted Boylee's post saying that adding mod support should be as easy as SDK...you posted examples of why adding mod support is hard.





    As our resident game dev expert, you're conflicting viewpoints are confusing!

  12. #32
    Roll-with-a-hole 3agle's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc View Post
    Obviously all game engines are different, my point is that:

    Originally, you quoted my post saying that its not always cheap or easy to add mod support....you posted examples of why adding mod support is easy.

    Then, you quoted Boylee's post saying that adding mod support should be as easy as SDK...you posted examples of why adding mod support is hard.



    As our resident game dev expert, you're conflicting viewpoints are confusing!
    Well I'm certainly not an expert, more novice, if that.
    I don't think my views are conflicting, engines such as Frostbite and the Infinity engine (BF and CoD respectively), are purposefully made to be closed off systems (read; non-moddable).
    There are engines available that allow the developers to more easily provide modding tools to end users, such as source, or Unreal.
    These are 2 distinct* and quite opposite types of engine, what you can do with one may not be true for the other.

    So, essentially it's down to the engines the developers choose to use(or are told to use). It's not as though BF3 couldn't have had mod support, but it would most likely have had to have been in another engine.

    Of course if all developers created purpose built engines for their games and all of them wanted modding in the game, things would be much simpler, probably less buggy too!
    However development times would be tripled, so in a business sense, it might not work out so well. Anyway, I'm starting to ramble.

    *I say distinct, but all games engines are quite different, even though they may share similarities, it's one of the things that makes games such an interesting field actually, that there is no one way of doing something
    Last edited by 3agle; 27-07-2012 at 16:58.
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  13. #33
    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    Frostbite could have had mod support, it was developed in-house after all, it was obviously never an objective though and that's the critical point in my opinion. Anyone developing for PC who doesn't include community and mod support may as well bin the PC version and stick to developing for the console peasants.
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  14. #34
    Administrator Apoc's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    My post had nothing to do with game engines, I already said I know they are all different.

    I was just teasing you for quoting people and then contradicting them
    ...nevermind



    So...Battlefield eh? good game!

  15. #35
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Logan's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    Not long now - who's getting it? I plan to - and to play it lots

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  16. #36
    Playstuff Member .ps
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    Ok, that looks quite nice actually...
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  17. #37
    Roll-with-a-hole 3agle's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    I might get it if I can find it for under 30
    BF3 was fun for a little while, could be good if there are a few people I know playing.
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  18. #38
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Logan's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    lol - just read this entire post (obviously I hadn't when I posted earlier ^^^...so I see people are not keen on getting bf4 generally? That changes my plans tbh. I only want to get it if I can play with peeps. Have you made your minds up that you won't be getting it then?

  19. #39
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    Not getting it probably. Was disappointed with BF3 and didn't play and enjoy it enough to justify the fairly high price.
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  20. #40
    Roll-with-a-hole 3agle's Avatar
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    Re: Battlefield 4

    Found it for 27 so I've pre-ordered it, but if the beta disappoints I may cancel.
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