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Thread: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

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    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Logan's Avatar
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    CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    Clearly there is work to be done on CS:GO. Here's a couple of vids from long time CS 1.6 pro Jimmy Whis who talks the most sense on the subject that I have come across. Posting it here with the intention of adding his updates to this article. Alot of us are ex CS players and we want CS:GO to be the best it can be - so lets get involved in feeding back our thoughts, in our usual positive, Playstuff manner.





    and a follow up with a constructive project idea



    Interesting stuff. Post vids you find by CS 1.6 and CS: S Pro's and lets inform ourselves on this. I want CS:GO to be a huge sucess - so if we can all inform ourselves better, play the beta, and feedback to Valve/HiddenPath @CSGO_dev then I think we'd be playing a small but valuable part in the shaping of the game to a state that can have us all hooked again on Counter Strike. The only FPS I've ever played that felt like I could never practise enough! High skill ceilings are sadly lacking in current FPS games - and this is our chance to claw back the very thing that drew us to spending hundreds or thousands of hours playing Counter Strike - whether that be Source or 1.6.
    Last edited by DK; 25-03-2012 at 14:27. Reason: unintended smilie deletion
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    Moderator 3agle's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    Can't agree enough with that second video, and the others to be fair, but particularly the second.
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    Playstuff Member .ps Krazko's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    yeah the second one has some really key points in it.. I'm really hoping valve gets it right for the comp scene cause I really like watching and playing competetive fps...

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    Playstuff Member .ps
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    I think the second video especially does highlight the fact there are clearly different types of game. Sometimes is can be fun to jump into a game which ISN'T done to the level he is talking about, something with those random elements, where you can turn your brain off and such. But at times, especially looking forward to the world of e-sports that game IS needed. And the reason the 2 CS's have been so popular for so long is because while there have been a ton of new games which fit the turn your brain off section, nothing has come to take the more competitive side. And the game they are making is CS, if ANY game needs to take the mantle of that side, it's this one. The only issue is, easier games sell more...
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    I think there's a lot of sense in this thread, really. The high skill cap, low skill floor thing is difficult to pull off, but Valve had it down for 1.6 and hopefully they can recapture it with CS:GO. I'm keen to see whether good matchmaking code can reduce the problem of new players running into far better players (as happened in 1.6, CS:S, and the current beta). There's no real learning curve in CS because everything depends upon the relative skill between players - it's not like a platformer or puzzle game where the game itself gets harder as time goes on. If they manage to construct an appropriate learning curve by making sure people quickly find environments where they're a little better than the worst players there and a little worse than the best players there then this game shouldn't have the problems of 'weekend warriors' quitting in disgust at the temerity of a dedicated player bringing hundreds of hours of practice to bear on their head.

    The introduction of casual mode is good, but the secret there I think will be for Valve to take away just enough to make it instantly accessible without compromising the core mechanics (so that skills obtained through playing casual will carry over to competitive). I'm sure the modders will be hard at work once it comes out to add on all the wonderful mods that 1.6 and CS:S received, from Superheroes and Warcraft to Pigeon Shoot maps. Those kind of mods, at least in my experience, make the game more accessible and more fun for casual players, but they rely on being constructed on top of a very solid core, and I'd like to see that core be as solid as possible in CS:GO.

    Taking luck out of the equation leaves a game where competitive matches are interesting because the variable is player skill. It also makes those few wonderful rounds that you play truly stand out. When your team gets wiped early and you take down three or four enemies and defuse the bomb... well, you know that was all on you. You did that. It's that feeling which makes the hours of practice worth it, and which makes you keep coming back, because you can have the social interaction and strategy stuff from many kinds of game, but the magic of CS was always in knowing that what you just did was HARD and it took SKILL to do it well.
    Last edited by Sloth; 25-03-2012 at 19:16. Reason: Unwanted smilies removed. Damn CS:S
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    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
    DAT POAST


    Bonus points for using the word temerity.
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    Playstuff Member .ps grazr's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    I thought it was funny what he said about CSGO looking and feeling like DoD, because that was my first thought also.

    Also, he speaks the absolute truth about "random chance" ruining competitive compatability. There's a reason TF2 leagues run no-crit (and often in extreme cases, no damage spread as well).

    I also think it's funny how competitive players truly discover the full potential of any games... meta game. I mean look at TFC and the conc-grenade, look at DoD and "counter strafe", and quake's bunny hopping, all of which were unintentional gameplay elements introduced by nothing but a side affect which defined and individualised each game and its scene.

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    Moderator 3agle's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    Quote Originally Posted by grazr View Post
    I also think it's funny how competitive players truly discover the full potential of any games... meta game. I mean look at TFC and the conc-grenade, look at DoD and "counter strafe", and quake's bunny hopping, all of which were unintentional gameplay elements introduced by nothing but a side affect which defined and individualised each game and its scene.
    Indeed, there's a similar parallel in professional speed-running I find too, take the Portal 2 glitch assisted speed run as a good example, it reveals a lot about unintentional elements of the game that are common place in the speed runs (bunny-hopping included, even in reverse ).
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    Playstuff Member .ps grazr's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    I thought CS Source was prime example of a "sequal" that never lived up to its predecessor, because primarily it was just a clone with upgraded graphics and none of the quirks. This is a problem i am having with many of the re-births of classic multi-player FPS's. I mean more people play CS still than CS Source, which made me hella skeptical about the development of yet another sequal, CSGO.

    I'll be disappointed if CSGO turns out to be exactly what i think it will be, a prettier CS. It needs something... new. Again, turning to TF2 as an example. TF2 is hardly anything like it's predecessor and look how well it was still recieved. Grenades were completely removed, flag style game modes made almost entirely redundant, significantly slower gameplay and brand new medic mechanics. But it's still Team Fortress in its own way. I'd like to see them do something similar with CSGO. I'm not saying they need to turn CS into a cartoon... but i think you guys understand what i mean. CS needs to evolve, just like StarCraft and TFC did.

    It feels too much like a safe re-hash at the moment.

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    Playstuff Member .ps Stealth's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    *sigh* I don't want levels or a skill cap or anything like that. - I understand it needs to evolve but not through achievements, I've never been a fan.

    Coming from playing CSS, (I never played much CS though did a bit after playing CSS for a long time) it was pretty bare bones, even if it was just an update to CS 1.6 I still logged loads of hours against it as it was such a simple concept and a good fun game. Two teams, each player is technically equal to all others (taking in account how much money you earn) and you have an objective - no other distractions or players just playing to gain an achievements or progress up the ladder.

    I do understand how some people would like to start off with players at their own skill level but back in ye old times there wasn't much of that, you connected to a server and found out after and as Sloth said you played with skill to overcome an objective that was making you pee your pants, it was hard but once you defused that bomb against all odds it makes it worth it. If it was against some players that are considered seasoned that was even better! Variation of player skills in a game is what made me want to keep playing!

    I really hope Valve don't go over the top with this, I want them to make me play throughout the night without toilet or food break! I want them to make me cry when I'm not playing well! I want them to make me addicted....again!

    So even if the game was a nice overhaul of 1.6 / CSS with more elements and game modes rather than unlocks and chieves I'd be happy with that.


    Please tell me if that made no sense or isn't relevant, my head a bit fried at the moment from work so it may even sound like a rant! :S
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    Moderator 3agle's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    Personally having played CSS competitively for so long, the only thing I'm looking at CSGO for is it's competitive viability. Of course it's success will not be measured by this merit (most likely), but I'm only getting it if it has the ability to be a competitive game like CS and CSS were.

    So far from the beta it has not impressed. It's had many problems, some of which had attempted fixes, most of which did not solve the underlying issues.
    In it's current state it will not have a competitive scene like the older CS games. And that is a deal breaker for me.
    I didn't expect much from Hidden Path considering their attempt at 'improving' CSS, but part of me just really wants the old good times with CS back.

    There's still time for things to be put right, so I will wait and see still, but I can't see it being much more than yet another casual TDM shooter.
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    Playstuff Member .ps Stealth's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3agle View Post
    Personally having played CSS competitively for so long, the only thing I'm looking at CSGO for is it's competitive viability. Of course it's success will not be measured by this merit (most likely), but I'm only getting it if it has the ability to be a competitive game like CS and CSS were.

    So far from the beta it has not impressed. It's had many problems, some of which had attempted fixes, most of which did not solve the underlying issues.
    In it's current state it will not have a competitive scene like the older CS games. And that is a deal breaker for me.
    I didn't expect much from Hidden Path considering their attempt at 'improving' CSS, but part of me just really wants the old good times with CS back.

    There's still time for things to be put right, so I will wait and see still, but I can't see it being much more than yet another casual TDM shooter.
    Hmm not sounding too good then but we can only keep hoping / provide feedback so when it comes out of beta it will be more than playable. Anyway, if it is pants...anyone game for setting up a dedicated 1.6 or source server and let the old good times roll again?
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    Playstuff Member .ps
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    I do understand how some people would like to start off with players at their own skill level but back in ye old times there wasn't much of that, you connected to a server and found out after and as Sloth said you played with skill to overcome an objective that was making you pee your pants, it was hard but once you defused that bomb against all odds it makes it worth it. If it was against some players that are considered seasoned that was even better! Variation of player skills in a game is what made me want to keep playing!
    That was why I never really played

    Fair enough if you enjoyed it, but always being owned whenever I tried to play CSS has meant I've only ever played it with mates.
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    Badministrator grom's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    I'm with you Sero, having to sit out a round bored because I was killed whilst still trying to buy a pistol never made me want to play and never allowed me to learn. I love CS when I don't get killed instantly and can actually play long enough to settle in but that rarely happened unless I was playing with friends
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    Playstuff Member .ps Stealth's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    Hmm spose my point is a bit moot then, I never really thought about it like that, needless to say I do like a challenge and I think/hope CS:GO will have plenty of variation for everyone to have a good time. There are still a lot of DM / Gun Game servers on the go for CSS so its fun to occasionally pop on and get back into the action straight after you've been fragged.

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    Moderator 3agle's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    Quote Originally Posted by grom View Post
    I'm with you Sero, having to sit out a round bored because I was killed whilst still trying to buy a pistol never made me want to play and never allowed me to learn. I love CS when I don't get killed instantly and can actually play long enough to settle in but that rarely happened unless I was playing with friends
    I actually feel the same way, which is why I only really played css competitively.
    I guess the fact that I got into the game playing it with friends on LAN helped me get into the game.

    I'm not going to sit here and claim the annoying wait between rounds gets easier because that's BS, it frustrated me all the time.
    But I found more merit in the game that made me forgive that, it's a shame that's no longer there.
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    Administrator Apoc's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    The high consequences for death impact the way the game should be played, it's pretty defining.

    Also, getting your ass handed to you is kind of a right of passage...one you can share and bond over later



    Playing a game with only friends in it doesn't really help...
    Playing on a server with one or two mates sitting beside you on laptops, giving advice and watching you die repeatedly does help a lot though. That'd be my recommendation.

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    Badministrator grom's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apoc View Post

    Also, getting your ass handed to you is kind of a right of passage...
    Dude - I'm 40 - I don't feel the need to go through any rites of passages especially concerning my ass.
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    Playstuff Member .ps Stealth's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    Quote Originally Posted by grom View Post
    Dude - I'm 40 - I don't feel the need to go through any rites of passages especially concerning my ass.
    lmao

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    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    Re: CS:GO dev : what are the Pro's saying?

    Quote Originally Posted by grom View Post
    ...can actually play long enough to settle in
    This is what gun game is for, sharpens your aim up a treat before playing some demolition or rescue. I pretty much always play at least one round of gun game before playing objective based games in CS.
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