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Thread: pl_clifftop

  1. #1
    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    pl_clifftop



    PL_CLIFFTOP_B1

    Here goes nothing...

    This will be my entry into the dynamic payload competition, currently under the working title of clifftop. The map is set on the coast in a mountainous, deciduous forest and features a steep uphill battle for blue to push their cart of the top of the cliff into the naval laser battery missile silo situated beneath.

    The map has two elevators, one under the first point and one under the third point. The run up to each point has one rollback zone and there's a forward spawn for each team.

    SCREENS:
    Spoiler: Reveal















    Last edited by Boylee; 30-04-2012 at 13:07.
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    Toilet Frog .ps Leminnes's Avatar
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    I love you to death, Boylee... but can you perhaps change the ground texture? It's sort of making my eyes bleed. T_T

    Sidenote: Looks fun! Yay!
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  3. #3
    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    I can and will, it was an unforeseen consequence of using upwards' lighting configuration. I imagine the next release will be very soon so I'll wait until we've tested it once.
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    Looking really nice, really enjoyed the game on it. The positioning of the cover is great, and it flows very well.
    Here's a list of things I felt you may want to know:
    - Attackers can place buildings still within the spawn, not sure if you want it, but most maps don't.
    - On the 1-2 road, the cart goes through a bit of a building. When it leaves the other side, up can get a bit stuck between the wall and the cart. Maybe make it a bit further from the wall?
    boylee 1.png
    - A couple more med-kits around
    - One match we held the 2nd point quite well. I didn't notice much but It looks a bit plain, sentries weren't going down.
    - A few people got stuck in a few doors, couldn't walk back into defending spawn.
    - Also getting lost, directional arrows would be helpful, but I guess that's already on the list
    - Some bits of the cart track is open up to some good sniper spots.

  5. #5
    The Punisher Sloth's Avatar
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    Yeah, liked it so far. Suggestions:
    • 1-2 road: make the whole climb shallower and that should reduce the defender advantage, especially rocket spam and sniper advantage. (Bear in mind that attacking snipers get flanked easily while defending snipers have high, secure ground)
    • 1-2 road: attackers need some health packs
    • General: some routes scouts can take that other classes find harder/slower might help the poor little guys
    • Point 2: might be balanced by making it point 3 and moving point 2 to the corner outside the door. That'd make the current point 2 more attackable by providing a rally point for the attackers.
    • Point 1: perhaps locking the right-hand flank route off to non-jumping attacker classes might make a difference to how easy point 1 is to cap, but might make it too easy.
    • All I can think of so far. Nice work, Boylee.
    Last edited by Boylee; 22-01-2012 at 00:49.
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    Windows Only MacNetron's Avatar
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    This is seriously wicked stuff for an A1!!! Well done!

    This door doesn't open for attacking team:


    The spawn on last point needs an extra higher exit to avoid spawncamping.



    Point 2 seems quite hard to attack. Two well placed sentries are enough to stall attack atm. Not sure if knowing the map better solves this...

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    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    Thanks for the test and the feedback guys, invaluable stuff.
    Things on the list so far:
    • Fix broken doors between areas.
    • Fix the forward spawn door, it's a bit sticky.
    • Redesign the run-up to the second point so that it's shorter and a shallower climb. Toying with the idea of putting an extra point in there too.
    • More health on the bottom half of the aforementioned section to help attackers get up the hill.
    • Raise large spawn exit at last point


    Please do keep it coming guys.
    Last edited by Boylee; 22-01-2012 at 21:13.
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    Billionaire Extraordinaire Two monkeys from a Tzu.'s Avatar
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    Just a few quick notes for now:
    This roof looks like it could be easily jumped on by soldiers and scouts but it is clipped off.


    This door does not open for the defense, no idea if it is dependant on the progress of the cart but I have the suspecion that it is the same door mac pointed out from the other side.


    The only thing I remember about the last point is that as attacker I somehow ended up in front of the defenders spawn by accident, it may have happened because it is the most obvious route to take beside the cart or it was just a coincidence.
    Last edited by Boylee; 22-01-2012 at 10:17.
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    Playstuff Member .ps Jimmy''s Avatar
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    "Point 2 seems quite hard to attack. Two well placed sentries are enough to stall attack atm. Not sure if knowing the map better solves this..." - Mac

    I agree, I think it's just a map of not knowing the map for that second point. I didn't see very many pushes on the left flank (from defenders POV). Or it may just be the height advantage defenders get looking onto the cap, from all sides. Or a both.

    Either way, looking good so far!
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  10. #10
    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    As far as I can tell from one test, the second point is too easy to defend. Both teams managed to hold their quite easily once the initial roll was over. I don't think thats to do with not knowing the map, I think it's just an inherent flaw in the layout. I'm going to almost totally redesign that point's layout to cut down on the sniper and sentry friendliness.

    Monkeys, that was the door Mac was talking about, I can't work out why it wasn't working so I've rebuilt it and simplified the inputs to the doors opening after capping, hopefully that will sort that.

    Defender's spawn is getting a height buff and, in lieu of any proper detailing I'll paint it red so it's more obvious. I'll have to think a bit more about how to change it from the default offensive drifter location though.

    As for that building that looks like it should be smothered in scouts, I'll put a larger roof on it.

    Great feedback guys, thank you all.
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  11. #11
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    I had a lot of fun playing this map! The only thing that I noticed was that the "control point holograms" were just hovering above both elevators when it's not up.
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  12. #12
    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    Yeah that's the idea.
    That way players can see that they need to raise the elevator to get the cart to the cap.
    I did have the cap point attached to the elevator before but it seemed a bit confusing, like it should cap as soon as you get on the elevator.
    I'd love to be able to make cap holograms that actually show cap progress, but I don't even think that's possible. :/

    Note to self:


    • Fix broken doors between areas.
    • Fix the forward spawn door, it's a bit sticky.
    • Redesign the run-up to the second point so that it's shorter and a shallower climb. Toying with the idea of putting an extra point in there too.
    • More health on the bottom half of the aforementioned section to help attackers get up the hill.
    • Raise large spawn exit at last point
    Last edited by Boylee; 23-01-2012 at 01:14.
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  13. #13
    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    Updated!

    screens:
    Spoiler: Reveal










    changelog:
    Code:
    21/01/2012 - A1 released
    23/01/2012 - A2 released
    + added another cap between 1 and 2 bringing the total to 4
    + redesigned most of the area between the original first and second points (now first and third)
    + redesigned the building that houses the original second (now third) point
    + fixed the broken doors leading into the second area
    + tweaked the way the triggers were set up on the mid spawn doors that were a bit sticky
    + redesigned red spawn to give a high ground exit
    + added a door that shuts upon cp3 being capped to funnel red to the last point 
    + added a secondary spawn for red at the last point
    + added some more cover to the last point and tweaked a few building layouts
    + added lots more health to the areas around the middle points
    + a couple of other things I forget
    - got rid of the yellow-based eyebleed!
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  14. #14
    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    Ahhh crap. It's just occurred to me that whilst building the new second and third points I forgot to put in a flank for second. I'll update to a2a when I get home.
    Last edited by Boylee; 23-01-2012 at 09:26.
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  15. #15
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    Quite enjoyed this from my little play.

    2 things, the gates which block the tracks, and don't open for anyone until the preceding point is capped. It's a touch annoying having to follow a door just to the side, as the track is the obvious landmark to follow.
    And 2, the elevators don't fall when no-one is on them (or at least the second(?) one doesn't), which makes it really hard for attackers if they all get killed off the cart when it is half way up, as the main route where the cart came from is now unavailable. They have to get above it, and drop down onto it. If one or two people (scouts) keep doing that, it can really stall the game, as the cart won't move backwards, yet most of the team can't get there.
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    The Punisher Sloth's Avatar
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    Point 3 is still pretty blocked up and locked down. I've got a few suggestions about how it might be resolved, feel free to disregard them.

    As shown by screenshots below, the idea is to move cap 2 up the hill (so it's less rollback if BLU get stalled), move BLU spawn to RED old spawn when point 2 is capped, and turn point 2 into a turntable which used to lead off to the little room opposite RED old spawn.

    clifftop_ammoroom.jpgclifftop_cap2.jpgclifftop_spawn.jpg

    I'd also recommend some ammo for RED around the top of cap 3 and possibly a window or two on the wall behind the roof above the entrance to the cap 3 room (the one you can spam down from as RED), to allow BLU to compete for the roof and send some spam in on RED's sentry nests, etc.

    The changes are all good, from my perspective; the map plays even better than a1 did and that was pretty sweet already. Think you're really onto something here, Boylee.
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  17. #17
    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sero View Post
    Quite enjoyed this from my little play.

    2 things, the gates which block the tracks, and don't open for anyone until the preceding point is capped. It's a touch annoying having to follow a door just to the side, as the track is the obvious landmark to follow.
    And 2, the elevators don't fall when no-one is on them (or at least the second(?) one doesn't), which makes it really hard for attackers if they all get killed off the cart when it is half way up, as the main route where the cart came from is now unavailable. They have to get above it, and drop down onto it. If one or two people (scouts) keep doing that, it can really stall the game, as the cart won't move backwards, yet most of the team can't get there.
    1. I see your point but have no adequate solution to circumnavigate that at the moment. I'll try a release at some stage with no gates at all and see how that goes.

    2. I must've broken the elevators, they should go back to the ground when no-one's on them. They did do this before I added another control point. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
    Point 3 is still pretty blocked up and locked down. I've got a few suggestions about how it might be resolved, feel free to disregard them.

    As shown by screenshots below, the idea is to move cap 2 up the hill (so it's less rollback if BLU get stalled), move BLU spawn to RED old spawn when point 2 is capped, and turn point 2 into a turntable which used to lead off to the little room opposite RED old spawn.
    Funnily enough I originally built point 3 at the top of that roll back and changed my mind, I'll try changing it back to the top, my only problem is that it makes the next point very, very short. Turntable might resolve this but it feels like it may seem contrived.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
    I'd also recommend some ammo for RED around the top of cap 3 and possibly a window or two on the wall behind the roof above the entrance to the cap 3 room (the one you can spam down from as RED), to allow BLU to compete for the roof and send some spam in on RED's sentry nests, etc.
    I don't understand, sorry. Any chance I can have another one of your (beautifully) illustrated screenshots please?

    Thanks guys, I'm glad you're digging it.

    P.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrik @ tf2maps.net
    You can shoot down at blu's first spawn from the final cp.
    how did I miss this?

    Spoiler: Reveal
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    Billionaire Extraordinaire Two monkeys from a Tzu.'s Avatar
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    I just found my a2 demo recording, thanks to some derping on my part it was called demo.dem and quite hard to find.
    I think I started recording only after the second round and was maybe a little bit (read: alot) tipsy the whole match. So I probably behave like the typical pub player chasing after the first shiny thing he sees every time. I played heavy the whole map.
    How do I get the file to you, it is 27,1 mb big which is over the normal gmail attachment size.
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  19. #19
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    Re: pl_clifftop

    Quote Originally Posted by Two monkeys from a Tzu. View Post
    How do I get the file to you, it is 27,1 mb big which is over the normal gmail attachment size.
    Dropbox!
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  20. #20
    Greater crested hermit ninja Boylee's Avatar
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    Also you can compress it with 7z compression (google 7zip for a free program that'll do this) that should shave a fair chunk of the filesize off.

    But yeah, dropbox is the way forward.
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