Thread: The Subtle Spamfest

  1. #20861
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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    So under this scheme you would pay a deposit on a bottle and only get that back if you take it to a return point? Sounds to me that you would be losing money then if you recycled the bottle using your home recycling waste pick up.

    Obvs it is working there and makes points about the benefits of not mixing plastics with food wastes etc. but it does seem to penalise those who do not have a shop/point nearby or have limited mobility.

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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    Quote Originally Posted by ehdoo View Post
    So under this scheme you would pay a deposit on a bottle and only get that back if you take it to a return point?
    Yes.

    Each bottle or can over there has an indication of how much it's recycled value is worth.



    When you take it back to a recycle point (at supermarkets), it scans all the barcodes and gives you a coupon to the shop for the total. About 10p on cans, and 25p on 1.5l bottles.

    As far as I know, the scheme is jointly funded by the companies who produce the bottles (coca-cola, evian, whoever) and supermarkets (infrastructure), who in turn are rewarded with tax breaks and easy ways to get customers to regularly visit their store.

    Quote Originally Posted by ehdoo View Post
    Sounds to me that you would be losing money then if you recycled the bottle using your home recycling waste pick up.
    Effectively, yes.

    The idea is to incentivise recycling rather than either relying on the good morals of your populace or issuing a fine for not recycling.

    In the UK we recycle about 50% of plastic bottles, when you compare that to Norway:

    Quote Originally Posted by BBC News
    And a ministerial delegation has been to Norway to see if the UK should copy an industry-led scheme that recycles 97% of bottles.
    It's pretty embarrassing.

    Quote Originally Posted by ehdoo View Post
    Obvs it is working there and makes points about the benefits of not mixing plastics with food wastes etc.
    This can be a real issue for recycling centres. If for example, a load of recycling has an old half-full milk bottle leak all over it, generally this recycling is then dumped as refuse as washing all the effected material is not economical.

    Quote Originally Posted by ehdoo View Post
    But it does seem to penalise those who do not have a shop/point nearby or have limited mobility.
    Presumably these people will access these points in the same way that they do now for their shopping, via some sort of return system if their shopping gets delivered, or an assistant. It's an 'all carrot and no stick' system top to bottom, so you can expect this process to be made as easy as possible.
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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    warning: loud


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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    Quote Originally Posted by Seric View Post
    Yes.

    Each bottle or can over there has an indication of how much it's recycled value is worth.



    When you take it back to a recycle point (at supermarkets), it scans all the barcodes and gives you a coupon to the shop for the total. About 10p on cans, and 25p on 1.5l bottles.

    As far as I know, the scheme is jointly funded by the companies who produce the bottles (coca-cola, evian, whoever) and supermarkets (infrastructure), who in turn are rewarded with tax breaks and easy ways to get customers to regularly visit their store.



    Effectively, yes.

    The idea is to incentivise recycling rather than either relying on the good morals of your populace or issuing a fine for not recycling.

    In the UK we recycle about 50% of plastic bottles, when you compare that to Norway:



    It's pretty embarrassing.



    This can be a real issue for recycling centres. If for example, a load of recycling has an old half-full milk bottle leak all over it, generally this recycling is then dumped as refuse as washing all the effected material is not economical.



    Presumably these people will access these points in the same way that they do now for their shopping, via some sort of return system if their shopping gets delivered, or an assistant. It's an 'all carrot and no stick' system top to bottom, so you can expect this process to be made as easy as possible.
    We have the system of "statiegeld" for plastic bottles and glass bottles before that in the Netherlands for a long time, but there are talks about stopping with it....
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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    Some thoughts by someone who couldn't return to sleep (hopefully the spell checker works! ).

    I was impressed by the Norwegian statistics of 97 % recycling rate, so first thing to do was obviously to compare it with Sweden in the Scandinavian battle for the environment. It ended up being harder than I thought to get hold of official raw Norwegian statistics as well to understand their system. As the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten puts it, their recycling rate has the raw number of recycled PET-bottles and aluminium cans, and then a somewhat arbitrarily added percentage (10 %) is included of bottles that are being burnt and through that creates district heating. If instead going for the "100 % bottles* sold, X % were recycled method", the numbers for 2016 would have been:

    Norway ~87 % (top country in the world)
    Sweden 84,9 % (second in the world)

    Just a couple of years ago you could neither get "pant" or even recycle a Norwegian bottle (or German for that matter) in Swedish machines so you had to throw them at the junkyard for burning, today you can recycle them, but won't get any money back. With that said though, the image in Seric's post shows a can with Swedish pant mark (up top), and Norwegian mark just below, so seemingly you can get your money back in either country from that can. This could be quite practical as Norwegians buy 20 % of their soda and a big portion of their spirits needs in Swedish border shops due to sugar taxes and higher alcohol taxes in Norway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seric View Post
    As far as I know, the scheme is jointly funded by the companies who produce the bottles (coca-cola, evian, whoever) and supermarkets (infrastructure), who in turn are rewarded with tax breaks and easy ways to get customers to regularly visit their store.
    Google told me the Norwegian system (from 1999) itself is based off the Swedish system, so I guess we're built more or less the same, in which case you would be correct. Just to be over explicit, in our case it's a joint organisation through three trade associations, one for breweries and two different associations for shop owners.

    Now I'm a bit biased since this is the only system I've ever known (and grown up with), but I do hope you adopt the system in some way. In the end, if it helps reducing plastics in nature or plastic pellets in the sea, what's not to like.

    Lastly, this system comes with it own music spinoffs for recycle commercials. Miriam Makeba's "Pata Pata" becoming "panta panta" (roughly "recycle, recycle") (original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNeP3hrm__k, commercial: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS6mxyItZsI)

    And Cuban "Guantanamera" sounds like "panta mera" (recycle more, also the name of the recycle organisation) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV5sOa04EWA)
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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelika View Post
    We have the system of "statiegeld" for plastic bottles and glass bottles before that in the Netherlands for a long time, but there are talks about stopping with it....
    Statiegeld!
    We pay 25 cents extra(!) for a 1 or 1.5 liter plastic bottle. When returning it, you'll get the money back.



    All other plastics can be thrown in these kind of epic containers (if your city puts them in your neighborhood)



    You can see a glass and paper container at the left.

    Besides that, at our home we have got a smaller paper, green and 'all other' container. Paper is emptied once a month and the other two once in two weeks. Works perfectly.


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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    I quite like the Belgian system for refuse as well. Where if you want your rubbish collected, it has to be in special bags. You can only buy these bags from your local council (or whatever), so you pay for however much rubbish you create.

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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    Quote Originally Posted by Seric View Post
    I quite like the Belgian system for refuse as well. Where if you want your rubbish collected, it has to be in special bags. You can only buy these bags from your local council (or whatever), so you pay for however much rubbish you create.
    It's a bit different now. You still buy plastic bags for plastic, but other garbage has containers with RFID tags. They weigh it and you get a bill at the end of the year.
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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    ....that's even better!

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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    Cookie given from: Sloth

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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    Welcome to the World of VNC
    On September 20th 2016, I scanned the whole internet for VNC servers (again), and took a screenshot of those without a password.
    https://worldofvnc.net/index.php

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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    Happy Valentines Playstuff

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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    I am familiar with the big mac index but today is the first time I have hear of the Freddo Index

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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    Quote Originally Posted by ehdoo View Post
    I am familiar with the big mac index but today is the first time I have hear of the Freddo Index

    The change of the sizing of food result in the biggest price increases most of the times without people noticing it.

    Basically with food you can have several things happening to increase the price:
    Now 10% extra!!!!1111 (with a 20% price increase) and a few months later the packaging is returned to the old size for the higher price
    Same Price for 10% less without saying anything (New recipe all better now!)
    Price increase without changing anything

    I do wonder if they have measured the weight of the Big Mac in the different times. It could be that the amount of meat has decreased in those as well.

    Furthermore shops often increase prices the week before they put something in the sale bucket.
    Most black friday sale items were not even cheaper at that time...
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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest







    My internet, it's dieing!
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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    You can never underestimate the stupidity of the general public...

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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest

    Tricks and workaround used by devs in Games to solve problems
    https://twitter.com/i/moments/964634343166631943

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    Re: The Subtle Spamfest



    For the Dutch (and Belgian) people around here.
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