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Thread: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

  1. #21
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Logan's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbomcb View Post
    i just fail to see the point in this...
    that'll be because your mostly a one line post man and with respect - go read my most recent post again. There's at least one point to it there which i'd be grateful if you didn't just dismiss.

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    Moderator Sicks's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    i always forget to launch vent before going in game, and if i alt tab to do it it makes my sound card do wierd things and i blow up peoples ears i still hear their screams on cold dark nights

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    Administrator jim's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colt View Post
    that'll be because your mostly a one line post man and with respect - go read my most recent post again. There's at least one point to it there which i'd be grateful if you didn't just dismiss.
    i'll expand seeing how one line leaves a lot to be misinterpreted, is this for more funds for playstuff, is this just for a private forum or am I totally misunderstanding it. I seriously doubt the lack of a place to talk "privately" (as in not viewable by people not paying) is silly and not one which is going to benefit anyone (other than in terms of money for new resources)

  4. #24
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Logan's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    well, money is, for sure, a concern. Playstuff currently is funded by a core of about 5 people - and they are repeatedly the same people. Without them, we would be closed already.

  5. #25
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    in regards to vent i don't have acess, mianly cause colt rembers how much I ramble/rage on vent

    in regards to funding i am on the dole atm and due to the Job centre incompetence at informing me i ahven;t been paid since about december .. when i get money together/job i will help when i can/ Although possibl stints int he State of Georgia and then maybe plaestine later this year may mean even les smoney but *shrug*

    in regards to what section i agree with most of what has been said. I think having maybe section one for member to say stuf abotu themeselves and then chat and then organsinig Community games (thinking not just organisng over ht eentirety of the community but maybe somthing like game nights, especially with BC2 coming out and squad based action)
    The Imperium of Man is able to traverse the Warp with difficulty when their Emperor concentrates from his golden life support machine and lights the way. Unfortunately, because the Emperor has the attention span of the average 5-year-old Pokemon fanboy, this means that many an unfortunate Imperial ship has had the WTF WHERE'D THE LIGHTS GO experience, which in the Warp is invariably fatal.

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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    Wouldn't it be best to stop discussing here and just do this.
    It's not that much work and we can continue discussing more privately if necessary.

    And if it doesn't work out, it's just as easily deleted again.
    Don't see much downsides in trying here.
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  7. #27
    Moderator Seedy_George's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    I.. think I'm a tentative yes.
    And gosh darn it if I'm not going to go subscribe right now.

  8. #28
    Administrator Chips's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    My two cents, and boy do I tend to waffle.

    About donations. I need to read around more to find info. I play very occasionally on your server (meaning infrequently). However, when I do play TF2 - it is only on you server. When I play CSS it is rapidly going to be only on your server, so this is only as I tend to not play games much anymore.
    I may not be around much and I may be an argumentative bugger over my perspective of Apple, but above all, I appreciate the atmosphere the server has and here has. I appreciate invites from people to come and join in game, I like feeling at ease despite not knowing many at all, and I feel welcome, despite not knowing many.

    I don't get that elsewhere - I've had it previously elsewhere but that was a long time ago and things long long long since changed. I just like the mentality - it's the small things "Server load: 0.00 Jiggawatts. 0% Flux Capacity" - that stuff makes me smile Love those little touches

    I am not one for generally talking about my life on a forum though, and unless someone wants advice, I'm not one for reading about others either - probably as it makes me feel guilty if I've got things good, or difficult to say anything other than "ouch unlucky" without actually having a clue what they're going through or being able to offer up anything meaningful. I may also see them in game and feel I should say something, but... it is difficult to describe without sounding selfish in wanting to not feel guilt, but I assume that is what it is.

    Goldie knows most of my personal life, so I guess it is possibly the "publicity" of a forum that means I won't chat, so a personal area of that is good.

    So for me, the 20 donation per year is not something that I think should filter who knows your life, as giving money isn't something that would reassure me. That comes from knowing folks, building a relationship and trust - all of which I build through MSN, and not forums. The idea that giving 20 means you trust me enough to read about your personal life? I don't think donation should qualify alone (maybe I mis-read ).

    About donations - would love to see some sort of "meter" which shows how much is required in monthly running cost, how much is currently covered - and what the breakdown of cover is. People never like to give money if they don't know what exactly it is for, and I'd prefer to give a lump sum rather than monthly. I'd like to know where it is going etc.

    So donations? Yes. As I play more, I will donate If I manage to start regularly playing CSS, then I'll probably make a reasonable contribution. I don't, however, want my contribution out of enjoying playing no the server to suddenly mean I appear more valued or trusted than those who are regular members of here I suppose what i mean is, I enjoy dropping by, I just don't want my financial status (student, still) to mean I appear "more appreciated" than regulars. I'm sure it won't, you're starting out asking for input - so hopefully this appears as feedback to take on board, and not criticism!


    p.s After reading this back, I notice not a lot makes sense and there are typos. but after a day at a keyboard, I seriously don't want to make it perfect through editing and re-reading, so if anything reads weird or wrong, it is most likely because it is a mistake

    p.p.s Regarding subscriptions, I'd rather a one off lump of 5, 10 etc than subscribing
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  9. #29
    🍕Mr🍕Man🍕The🍕Pizza🍕Fan🍕 Post Script's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    I too have noticed that the majority of views on the forum are guests...

    I am also open, and there is little I hide on the internet as my blog shall prove in time.

    Let us presuppose everyone on the internet that visits our forum are decent folk, the answer would clearly be a yes to this question (since the only reason not to is raised in Caliostro's point).

    Also remember that you can NEVER know someone fully. There are copious amounts of examples in the 'real world'. It is possible for someone to deceive others as to their intentions, especially on the internet. I could turn out to be an nasty nasty evil man. I assure you this is not the case, but can you be sure? Can you be sure that your neighbors are decent? I digress.

    I understand that Playstuff aka 'our home on the net' needs funds to keep it going, but to bring it into a matter of effectively selling people's privacy is not an idea I am fond of. I know this is warping your idea slightly (as hopefully no undesirable would join let alone subscribe) but it could turn out like that and so I propose a possible solution: A postcount which, when exceeded, allows a user to subscribe. By then we should have a measure of the person.

  10. #30
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    I think there is confusion with the subscribers part. It's the name of the usergroup, you don't have to subscribe to get it - just by being what we do best, friendly, creative and full of that sense of fun Chips mentioned above. No one will be valued above anyone else based on financial status - that's the complete opposite of us .

    As you mention chips:

    So for me, the 20 donation per year is not something that I think should filter who knows your life, as giving money isn't something that would reassure me. That comes from knowing folks, building a relationship and trust - all of which I build through MSN, and not forums.
    That's how we operate, building relationships around the forum (not just on) so money alone is not a filter to this.

    Also Chips, there's a big direct donation link at the footer, and I may play with the idea of a meter. After the servers page is done

  11. #31
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    I think we discussed the meter thing before, but Colt did rather not have one for a reason I can't recall.
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  12. #32
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    I did have a nagging voice in the back of my head when writing that last bit

  13. #33
    Playstuff Member .ps ezekel's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    well i'm gonna be a lil brutal in my honesty here.

    it feels to me as this is something for you, colt, personally rather than a large boon for the community. you want the (questionable) safety of a tight knit group that you can interact with and considering what i've heard about your recent past i don't find this very suprising.

    now on the other hand, this could actually damage a community by cliquing it off. what this means is to the layman the close knit activity you wish to foster will be invisible - what incentive does this give to non paying members to offer money up when they have no idea the sort of thing they're signing up for.
    a similar situation has occured on the RCD servers - our group leader tried to encourage us to talk on vent instead of ingame. the result was that pubbers stopped signing up asoften cos no one could hear us bantering away in a friendly manner. all they saw is a group of people playing TF2 (with varying degrees of skill mind you), but no soul within the community.

    it's not the money that's the crux of the issue you see, but this whole idea of segregation/seperation.
    in the end of the day you can still try it out and see how it works. i imagine the hardcore group of people you know and have known for a while will go along with it, but the rest ... probably will just stick to the public areas.

    now if you want advice - there are many ways to ask it in a manner that isn't public, such as instant message programs or IRC. i'm sure many are willing to offer advice and help where they can if they are approached.

    well that's my thoughts on the matter. hope i didn't offend
    Last edited by ezekel; 02-02-2010 at 23:12.

  14. #34
    Moderator Sicks's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    Quote Originally Posted by Post Script View Post
    Also remember that you can NEVER know someone fully. There are copious amounts of examples in the 'real world'. It is possible for someone to deceive others as to their intentions, especially on the internet. I could turn out to be an nasty nasty evil man. I assure you this is not the case, but can you be sure? Can you be sure that your neighbors are decent? I digress.
    while this is true, i would think people who have made it as far as the forum, and particularly far enough to seethe proposed private section would have earned our trust.

    I think people are focusing too much on the "Subscribers would be able to read" part and are ignoring the other things colt said about it, subscribing is not the only way to gain access in the proposed idea.

    as for creating inner cliques, i don 't think that would happen, no more than having an admin only section would. This whole community is one big clique already, new members are welcomed with open arms and treated as mates until proven otherwise.

    the trouble with using instant messaging for these things is that you are either limited to talking to just 1 person about it at a time and repeating yourself to other people, without them seeing other peoples opinion on the matter, or you have to find a time when everyones online at once and not too busy to talk about it, in a forum people are free to see and post on the subject at their leisure, or even froom somewhere other than home (people arent likely to have IM programs at work, wheras they are more likely to be able to view the forum in their spare time)

    maybe it's just that i can see where colt is coming from, i have no idea what his health problems are, or what his situation at home is like (other than he has a dog ) but i have my fair share of health problems also, stuff that i rarely talk about at all let alone in a place where any random guest can come and read about it.

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  15. #35
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Logan's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    No need for apologies. Your thoughts on the matter are all appreciated and are the reason I don't want o simply 'set it up' - as there are some negative potentially destructive matters at hand.
    there's also alot of sense being talked....so keep it coming.

    Just to be clear though I wasn't suggesting payment denotes a trustworthy friends. I was saying I'd only want to say some things out the eyes of the internet at large. A small group that has shown a financial love for the place would do for me <<< and NOTE payment isn't the only way - as people say. Lots of people with subscriber status got it through contribution on the forum - nothing more.

    I see some truth in the vent eg Ezekel - I think it works that way a bit for us. I notice when i don't go on vent, I chat more in game....but not much more mainly cos i'm already pretty chatty.

    With regards to a payment meter. I have no idea what the previous objection was. My current objection is simply that we're not run very economically - as i see it, we define ourselves, and benefit from having over capacity. We're a geeks playground - so if someone has a web app they want hosting etc, I like to think we can help.

    Regular Costs break down, for the purposes of a meter, at 130 dedi servers and whatever I can recoup toward an outstanding hardware costs bill of 650. We are fortunate in that a huge amount of bandwidth and connectivity is provided through a friend of mine's company. There are other ad hoc costs - 175 for vBulletin etc.....and occassionally I will buy a game for a key member who cant afford it simply because them owning it is crucial to the community in my view - these tend to be admins or moderators. I'm forgetting things live the 15 a month i pay for our live chatroom (video etc) that we've not even got a linky to anymore I'll cancel that or start organising events there soon. I planned mapping lessons etc

    mainly, the point is, I'm always likely to be spending more than 'economics' says is sensible on this place - it's a place I love dearly with people I value hugely.....and I'm not going to get into a 'justify costs' situation. I don't think that should prevent me from asking for more subscribers though - and when we're 'breaking even' you can bet i'll be shouting it from the rooftops.

    By the way - you're not paying to get to see the private when you subscribe.....You're paying cos you love the place and place a financial value on it. There are alternative ways of doing it... a monthly charge to access our servers for eg. which other places run with success but which would take a whole heap of change to implement and i'm not a fan, and perks for the VIP members.

    It's simply that if i were to post anywhere vaguely 'public' asking for advice I can't get easily off family, it would be in a private lounge section on my own community. I could easily pick a group of people i'd like to share stuff with and make aprivate section for us - THAT would be a clique. This way is nothing of the sort.

    I've never been keen on a meter - as it starts a 'we can do this cheaper' war - and frankly the position is this : The capacity we have is at our core. Flexibility to be geeks. Non of our fees are wasted money - and if ultimately no-one wants to chip in, or the majority want slimmed down resources, I'd still strive to maintain the same level as without it, the place would not be as much fun for many of us.
    Last edited by Logan; 03-02-2010 at 00:11.
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  16. #36
    Administrator Chips's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    My point of a meter is that it gives something tangible to see how things are fairing. If it's got a shortfall, and I haven't donated- then I'm more likely to help out. Right now folks just simply won't know how good or bad the set-up is financially. As for the donate, I only saw subscription. Now I've seen the donate, I've used it. Tis a modest amount, but it's a start for an infrequenter

    As for "can be done cheaper" - that is always a problem with anything. The meter doesn't need to say specifics, a percentage would hopefully negate that
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  17. #37
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Logan's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    That's a good point. I'd have no objections whatsoever to publishing all the finances in the senior admin section and having a percentage of target meter viewable publically.

    The attraction of committed regular subscribers is simply that they give us the security to avoid a monthly cash grab

  18. #38
    Administrator Chips's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    It's only a good point if others would read it and donate if they feel flush enough, otherwise it'd only be for my benefit

    For me subscription is commitment, and sometimes I play a few times in a few days - others you won't see me for 3 months. I like wandering in and out when I've got nothing better to do, and I enjoy popping on the server and feeling at home. Ergo, if I am about, enjoying myself, and saw a small shortfall - I may donate an extra 5 to help out

    Then again, you may not see me for 3 months and so unless others are like me, it may be pointless! Just thought that if finances are a problem, then perhaps a bit more visible would help prod the folks who are willing to give a tiny bit
    Subscriptions may be the meat and veg, but wanderers like me may be the wine waiter - come around and top you up once in a blue moon (well, if you eat at the restaurants I've been to anyway!)

  19. #39
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Logan's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    for sure.

    Well, really, our goal above anything else is that people, whomever they are, are welcomed with a presumtion of goodness and friendly respect.

    What your telling me is we're not doing a bad job of it - and honestly, that's the real payment. All else is detail (and another reason i'd prefer to keep away from a meter really).

  20. #40
    Registered Member Caliostro's Avatar
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    Re: a bit of privacy - canvassing opinion of Playstuff forum members.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colt View Post
    Clan sections and the like - well, they're fine for clans. We're not a clan - definitely a community and definitely not just about gaming.
    As I said, replace "clan" with anything. Clan, Guild, Club M, The PS Treehouse of Horror, Bucket'O'Puke... whatever, name's irrelevant. The idea is to create a restricted club where only people who have proven themselves worthy, as decent members of the community, to the present population, people the current group would feel ok opening up to and sharing with, would be allowed on.

    That said, if the idea is to reward people for donating, I can understand that. It's valid. On the other hand, if the idea is to create a tightly knit group of reliable and trustful people then screening through "memberships" is the same as screening cars for quality based on their colour...

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