warhammer 40k mmo

[Sicks.ps]

im keeping a keen eye on this anyone else looking forward to it, so far the only info ive come across is that all the "important" races will be in, it is due for release in 2012 and recently some concept art has come up here: http://kotaku.com/5415951/an-early-l...k-mmo/gallery/


i spy a titan

[Damnation]

I heard about this a few years back and havent heard anything since. Here hoping it does somthing a bit diffrent than your standard MMO

[The Sero]

Here hoping it does somthing a bit diffrent than your standard MMO

Same, but I was also hoping that for Star Wars: The Old Republic as well

Meh, should be worth keeping an eye on this at least.

[Hawk.ps]

There's a Torchlight MMO coming, that'll be interesting

[The Sero]

Torchlight MMO

You mean that thing called World of Warcraft? I thought that had been out for awhile

[Hawk.ps]

WoW is hack 'n slash now and free?

[The Sero]

WoW has almost as much clicking xD Though would the MMO be free for torchlight? If so, not bad

[Warning Level = Bert]

to be honest this entire thign concerns me, mainly cause in an MMO space mariens shouldn't be playable also that bolter is wrong as it hasn't got a hollow barrel

i am incredibly sceptical this will live up to much

[NeoX]

MMO?

I wonder how this will work out....

(I like the Ork planes. )

[mic]

Though i never played Warhammer i did used to enjoy painting them when i was younger. I Love Warhammer because it is so dark and they normally set the scene very well. They have a lot to live up to lets be honest. I also loved Dawn Of War- Dark Crusade and the 2 before. Very good games back in the day.

[Sicks.ps]

true they do have a lot to live up to but it has potential, i just hope that with 2 years to go before release they can break out of the typical mmo mold with copy/pasted UI from wow

i played final fantasy 11 for 4 or 5 years, that mmo was pretty good and nothing like the current breed of MMO, the only other ive played was warhammer online but that was only a free trial week,

also i dont see why marines shouldnt be playable bert, as long as you cant be say a chaplain/librarian or other leader unit, if you were just a regular marine skill trees could be to gear yourself towards tactical marine, devestator or assault, the main problem id see with it is that in DoW and the table top game marines are supposed to be outnumbered because of the way they are made, in TT they are expensive points wise and in DoW they were also expensive units, they make up for it by having good training and gear, however in an MMO when they will be one of the most popular races im not sure how they would make that work, maybe other races could have AI controlled units to make up numbers or something.

bottom line is if games workshop doesnt like the product they will pull their licencing from it anyway, just look at warcraft and starcraft , so the dev's will have to do a good job of it just to keep the licence

[Tstrike.ps]

i think this would only work if it was a mmofps there i said it.,

[Warning Level = Bert]

the reason why you shouldn't be abel to paly amriens cause if you read any fo the backgroudn and fluf they prety much rape any other race in everythign.... also in the imperium of man there are trillions of people and BILLIONS of Guardsman and othe lesser human soldiers such as Planetry defence forces, Adeptus Arbites (the cops) and various small IMperial cult troops.

in comparison there is only around 1 million Space Marines, to hav ehtem in an MMO woudl Mena hundreds of mariens poncing about, leading to massive stackign and breaking the fluff to an extend even wow has yet to do despite goblin druids.

The best example of the capabalitie sof Mariens is DOW2, there are only abotu 20 Mariens in the game and thats how marines operate, if they were playable they'd pretty much be it.

And i agree with Tstrike it needs to be in an MMO style maybe like Mass effect style but mmo-a-fied, Kind of like Planetside if anyone remembers that

[Damnation]

the reason why you shouldn't be abel to paly amriens cause if you read any fo the backgroudn and fluf they prety much rape any other race in everythign.... also in the imperium of man there are trillions of people and BILLIONS of Guardsman and othe lesser human soldiers such as Planetry defence forces, Adeptus Arbites (the cops) and various small IMperial cult troops.

in comparison there is only around 1 million Space Marines, to hav ehtem in an MMO woudl Mena hundreds of mariens poncing about, leading to massive stackign and breaking the fluff to an extend even wow has yet to do despite goblin druids.

The best example of the capabalitie sof Mariens is DOW2, there are only abotu 20 Mariens in the game and thats how marines operate, if they were playable they'd pretty much be it.

And i agree with Tstrike it needs to be in an MMO style maybe like Mass effect style but mmo-a-fied, Kind of like Planetside if anyone remembers that

That logic is flawed, given that no one unit is directly comparable to any other unit for each army. If anything its the guardsmen that should be left out given there the worst unit in the game. Space marines are roughly equal to necron warriors and chaos space marines and trynid warriors and any kind of Eldar aspect warriors. I wouldnt be too upset at some "nerfs" to SM if it meant they would be in the game. I would be upset, if they left out SM entirely to accommodate the fluff.

[Sicks.ps]

like i said, yes marines are hugely powerful, but other races compensate with other things, tyranids/orcs make up for it in sheer numbers, eldar/tau have higher tech weapons better suited to deal with the armor, and in taus case they have a decent size army too (although my point of reference is only dow, they were added after i stopped playing the TT) chaos are basically equal to marines, t hey have lower-tech weapons but have mutations and demons etc, i know im missing a bunch of races and making generalisations there but you get the idea, it is something the devs need to keep in mind though, since it is one of if not the most popular 40k race i imagine that an mmo will have an overpopulation of marines

it honestly depends on the game setting id say, if i were trying to organise such a thing id make it so that you pick a chapter of the space marines, as in the fluff each chapter would be stationed on different planets, while other races have more of a free reign over the universe (or however much of it they implement into the game) space marines would focus more on fighting in their own sectorsm this would help keep the amount of marines you see down and also allow the player to choose what colour scheme they like, personally i hate being ultramarines, i find the all blue look boring and non-sensical, i know marines are hard as nails but blue isnt even trying to blend into their surroundings, also i find them to be self rightous i was always more of a chaos guy 40k just isnt 40k without marines though, they will be playable simply because they are the most popular race in 40k and they would be losing out on a lot of potential players by not having them

as for gameplay i agree that an mmofps would be great, something like borderlands only with better skill trees and changable armor, for marines it would mostly be like dow2 stuff, mostly looks the same maybe a few differences like chestplates and fancy shoulder pads etc, gives different stats to boost you in the area you want to go in etc etc, for orcs the typical more spikey stuff etc, imo borderlands merged the fps and rpg pieces together very well, fallout3 also did quite good at it but vats made the fps element redundant and the skills were more generic, wheras skill trees allow you to get funky abilities and buff your character in different ways

of course they might not do that at all, but tats what i would like : borderlands on battlefield type scale or bigger, clearly they are intending to add vehicles and even have concept titan models so the battle fields should be quite epic in size, i cant wait to charge at people with dual chain axes screaming "blood for the blood god!"

edit: sorry for the wall o text just looking forward to a hopefully good non rts 40k game, while i love dow and dow2, i would like to get closer to the action and get the team play feeling similar to tf2 rather than being the force commander

also theres a hack n slash style 40k game being made called space marine, but you can only play as marines in that and i think its consoles only

[Sicks.ps]

That logic is flawed, given that no one unit is directly comparable to any other unit for each army. If anything its the guardsmen that should be left out given there the worst unit in the game. Space marines are roughly equal to necron warriors and chaos space marines and trynid warriors and any kind of Eldar aspect warriors. I wouldnt be too upset at some "nerfs" to SM if it meant they would be in the game. I would be upset, if they left out SM entirely to accommodate the fluff.

i kind of agree, obviously imperial guard are in in some form or other, as the concept art has chimera tanks, but they are all about sheer numbers with laser pointers..... i mean lasguns, with a few specialist units, i cant see anyone wanting to be a standard guardsmen with a torch for a gun, and also i dont see the devs letting you become anything special like a commisar or other high ranking guardsman, it would be like fielding an army with no guardsmen at all in TT, i also doubt theyll allow player controlled tanks, or it will turn into battlefield 2 scenario where everyone just camps the vehicle spawns so they can play with the big guns, since guard are also all about the huge cannons on tracks that would be another downer to them, i could see guard being npc's

i also dont think tyranids would work as a playable race, i just dont see a genestealer standing around trying to trade for gear, also with the hive mind they shouldnt have any control over where they go or who to fight, also im not sure necrons would work, im not too sure of their fluff since they were also added just after i stopped playing, but from what i gathered from dark crusade, the only units with their own minds are the lord and pariahs, which again doesnt really suit an mmo, of course they could always be used as npc's or common enemies, both of them tend to turn up and try to slaughter all in sight

pretty much all other races i can see working though, in the base game i imagine they will leave out some races though, for example dark eldar and sisters of battle, they were the last to be added to dow and just arent as popular as the other races (i think ive read in TT dark eldar havent had new rules in about 7 years or possibly longer)

but the 40k universe is so diverse in sheer scale and amount of races, each with their own sub factions it will be a hard feat to pull off to add every detail into the game, i think it will be similar to dow, when it first comes out therell be marines, chaos, eldar and orcs, then if the game is successful enough they willa dd more races through expansions, they might start out with more races then that but leaving out any of those races would cut their sales alot, but they have probably a year to work out h ow it will all work and another year to implement, test and tweak with GW always watching

i hope the game turns out well because the lore and universe is just so huge and rich with character, if done well it could be a unique mmo and i hope it will turn out that way rather than another wowclone, we have enough of those

p.s. sorry for wall of text #2

[Warning Level = Bert]

If I am an honest I disagree with the majority of what has been said, let me go through some points.

1. I refute that Guardsman are to weak to be put up against other races, straight to off the ball sure the average guardsman is weak and undertrained, but if they survive their first few Years or receive advanced training or small amounts of genetic alteration they can become very effective troops, The Storm troopers whose weaponry has the potential in the current rules to penetrate a marines armour. Then you have the Gene Wars troopers and elite Regiments such as the Elysians and Tanith Ghosts. So Yes against the most basic troops of the majority of the galaxy guardsman do actually have a chance and elite guardsman are far more effective than you'd think.

2. There are also plenty of other Human Classes who are more common than marines who would also make good candidates. The arbites for example (think of Judge dread in the 40k universe and you get the picture) Often they are better armed, armoured and trained than guardsman because there are fewer of them and they aren't conscripted. You have the Skitarii (the Soldiers of the Cult Mechanicus) so big high tech bionic troops. Redemptionists basically mad zealots completely whipped into a religious Frenzy. The Adeptus Soraitais, the Sisters of Battle would be perfect (kidn like fem only paladins). even playing as a Tech priest would be doable, uses drones and mechadendrites and powerful tech weapons. So as you can see there is plenty they can do with humans

3. on the Point of Comparable units point this is wrong i am afraid, the Inquisitor Game and the RPG Dark heresy both do this comparable thing both in Weapons, races, psychic powers and in some cases Vehicles. for example average Humans strength and toughness 50-60, Imperial guardsman 55-65, Eldar rangers strength 60-80 toughness 40-60. Now i can't remember if these are exact but i can look them up if necessary, if you then bring Marines into the equation your looking at a character with stats of 4 time those strength of at least 190 and 220 and toughness of between 140 and 170, its just ridiculous to but them in that situation. ofc there are character who come close to marines Orks and Purestrain Genestealers. but both these then don't have the marines training or weaponry + armour.

4. If Marines are taken out of the equation it actually makes much easier to have other races in the game.
For example Eldar starting off as either guardians or rangers and then unlocking more advanced forms of these (Dire Avengers or Pathfinders respectivly) or the forms of the aspect warriors at hgher levels.
Orks are easy in this respect as well, because the average Ork boy is fairly useless untill he gains power etc, so starts off with shoota and slugga boyz, upgrading to Lootas, Burnas, Flash Gitz or Kommandos at hgiher levels
these are both races who basic units are fairly bum but whcih can become more effective as game progress. Marines after leaving the scouts are at a basic level of dirtiness not reached by the basic Units of most other races ever.

5. The issue of where to set it in my mind is be important as well, because setting it in the wrong place could rule out a couple of races.
For example setting it anywhere else except the Galactic South East would rule out the Tau entirely and limit to Tyrands (on the whole) genestealers and their associated shenanigans. Orks, Eldar and Dark eldar are pretty much everywhere. Chaos is a trickier one but again pretty much anywhere.

6. Tau, these little bastards would be actually quite difficult to implement because of how mechanised their armies are. Tau fire warriors, Pathfinders and stealth suits are pretty much their only base infantry. Doing on their Caste system would be a smarter move but even then it would still come down to needing to have the Battlesuits in there.

7.like i Said earlier DoW is not a good representation of most of the races, with the exceptions of Orks and the Imperial Guard and in some ways the sisters of Battle but soulstorm was a pile of poo and we won't go there. DoW2 so far has been much better in representing Orks and Marines.

Ok that rambling monstrosity of a reply is done...

hopefully I don't sound too aggressive and I know I know arguing on the internet and all but *shrug* I enjoyed writing all of that :p

also as my ilustrious colleague sicks said

p.s. sorry for wall of text

[Sicks.ps]

i see it more of a discussion than an argument , i'm no 40k pro i havent played the TT game in 15 years but i have a pretty good understanding of the fluff and how most races are supposed to work in the fluff at least.

1. my main point about the guard was that being a regular guardsmen would be kind of boring imo, but i stand corrected in that they have more troop choices to level into in an rpg setting

2. there are plenty of other human factions they could use but it comes down to popularity imo, purely from a sales point they will want the game to do well, therefor they wont leave out marines and put in a different human faction, ill admit i know who the arbites are, only from necromunda but still skitarii i think i heard of those before, but they dont even have rules or models on TT so i doubt we would see those, GW will want to promot races they can sell models for, as silly as that sounds that tends to be their thinking since that is where most of their money comes from, and with the recession and the ridiculous costs of their miniatures i wouldnt be surprised if their sales have gone down quite a bit in the last few years. SoB would possibly be a decent replacement for marines, but you know there will be all the 12 year olds who want to play thinking "i want to be mareeeeeenz not a girl!" etc.

3. in a direct comparison between units marines are almost always stronger than any other basic unit as far as i remember, i think only chaos marines are their equal, but, in the TT at least, you can generally afford 2-3 basic troops per marine in the points cost they have, this is all from old memory so i may be off, thats my main concern about marines in the game, they will be a popular race i would think, and thus to balance them out like they do in the TT game will be hard, in TT every marine killed in a game hurts quite a bit because they generally run at about 40 pts for a basic marine (i have kept up with the new codices but that number may be wrong) wheras orcs for example can afford to lose troops a bit more, it takes a lot of dakka to bring down one orc squad, probably the same amount it would take for a marine squad but in a different way, orcs will die to the same firepower easier but theres just more of them per squad, marines will die less to that gunfire from their armor but there arent as many of them per squad. which of course is a balance issue which the devs should already have in mind and probably been lectured on by GW already

4. interesting points, but they could verywell make it so that other races progress slightly faster, while marines start specialising in the scout phase, for example they would start speccing towards special weapons, scouts with sniper rifles and iirc they can have one heavy bolter per squad, speccing towards assault marine by using bolt pistols + chainswords or towards tactical marine by sticking with bolters, while they are levelling up in that way other races will have already progressed on to their next incarnation as it were, guardians would already have chosen their aspect shrine, orcs would have chosen their sub-class i.e shoota, burna boy, choppa etc. the only thing this wouldnt work so well for is chaos as they dont really create new marines if memory serves so they skip the whole scout phase altogether since their marines come from the heresy, but they could be balanced a bit for this game by having slightly weaker armor to start and worse weapons, after all their equipment is supposed to be 10,000 years old, obviously as they level up they can choose to be undivided or follow a specific god, choose whether they want to go into that gods specialist unit, berserker, plaguemarine, sonic marine and the otherone which i forget.... those egyptian looking fellows of filthy tzeench who should be murdered for their sorcerous ways! (khorne ftw ) or if you stick to being a general marine then you would later advance to chosen or possessed with heavy mutations etc. there is quite a bit of room i think for character development and if marines stay as scouts longer than other races start as their basic units i think that could help balance out the godliness of marines.

5. i agree here, i dont know much about the different regions of the universe in 40k but it would be nice if it were set somewhere where all races could take part, of course they could always add in other sectors in expansions, or maybe theyll do something along the lines of DoW and have all races stuck on one planet, possibly locked there due to warp storms or some other plot device, this would let them focus more on making one really big world rather than alot of smaller ones, but having different planets with 3-4 battlegrounds each could also work, with each race having a spaceship of their respective race to use as a hub for trading and such things that MMO's generally need, this would also stop trading between races, i dont see a marine forgetting a 10k year long feud with chaos to get a new shiny bolter or something

6. agreed, though you left out the kroot choices but im not sure how much advancement they would get, they are a heavily mechanized race, implementing them means implementing crisis suits or whatever those things were called, and if they add those then its possible other races will get dreadnaughts although due to the fluff i dont think dreads should be playable for marines definately, not too knowledgable of other races dreads, but i know marine dreads are supposed to be rare and not given out willy nilly to any tom dick or harry that loses a few limbs in that old interview though the guy interviewed did mention that they want their battles to be epic in size, so i could see things like dreads and tanks being AI controlled or possibly taking orders from squads, i.e a dedicated transport of a squad would take orders from that sergeant, he wouldnt get direct control as in actually driving the thing, but could bring up a map and tell it where the squad wants to go, all that kinda veered off the point of tau a bit which honestly i dont know enough about to speculate how they might be implemented

7, yeah i know that but its really the only thing i have to go on for tau and necrons, i remember they were just winding up their releases as i stopped playing, think i even had a free necron with white dwarf, but they didnt appeal to me, same with dark eldar, except they were released a bit later than tau and necrons iirc,, dow1 wasnt very good at representing races i know simply because as marines you could just fill your population with marine squads with 4 heavy bolters each and still take down monoliths baneblades and any other big nasty thrown at you, i dont think thats even possible in TT no matter how many heavy bolters you bring

also im not trying to be agressive or argumentative, just discussing what hopeefully will turn out to be a good game , in the absence of solid information we will resort to the next best thing, wild and unfounded speculation!

[Warning Level = Bert]

lol fair enough

In regards to GW using units that don't exist in the main playable in the tabletop game, they did it in Warhammer online with the inclusion of Zealots and Witch hunters. So it spossible for them to add such units in.

I also see a mild issue between some of the points you raised in regards to 12 year olds wanting to play SPEZZZ MARINENZZZ and the inclusion of all the chaos gods. if 12 year olds play 2 of the chaos gods would be difficult to implement Slaanesh and Nurgle, Tzeentch and khorn eare fairly generic and red rivers and some nice bskinless skulls for khonre lots of bright colours and lights and wiggly things for tzeentch. The whole rotting corpses and guts spilling everywehere for Nurgle and the purvy side of the decadance of Slaanesh, both of these woudl certainly make a PG13 game difficult to achieve. Thus the need to appease Spezz marine 12 year olds is conencted to how well they can implement Chaos.

in regards to the Tau i did forget Kroot and they can have scouts and snipers hard close comabt unti and coudl even have pet units with Kroot hounds although thinking abotu it normal tau can do all of those as well with either drones or Pathfinder snipers. There is ofc the Vespid which woudl be an excelnt winged race.

Also you might like this http://www.joachim-adomeit.de/wh40k/spacemap/map.html
the Realm of Ultramar would be best then you can have tau, nids, Orks, Imperials, Eldar and Chaos (there is a warpstorm within the Tau Empire so Chaos can come from there)

Oh yes in regards to Chaos marien and new Cahso Mariens they are possible now because GW took Chaos marines away fromt eh orignal heretical legions with the exception of the Black Legion, to renegades since the heresy. So they coudl be doable as woudl renegade chaos humans and mutants.

[Sicks.ps]

thats true they could add GW approved units, if they wanted arbites or other human factions then they only have to go to GW and ask really, come up with the idea and ask for approval or suggestions etc.

true about the 12 year olds but game rating wont stop parents buying the game for their kids most likely cant count the amount of under 18s i played gta4 against online on xbox, i would hope its at least a 15, the amount of gore that should be portrayed in a grim future when there is only war should be quite high i would think, with slaaneshy type things it semi-sexual, demonettes running around with practically no clothes on and the keeper of secrets also being half woman and half naked, especially if based off the forgeworld miniature which is more like a statue and also looks waaaay cooler than GW's demons it might be pushed up to an 18, but i imagine gw would want a 15 since alot of their customers are 15+

i agree with the realm of ultramar, it would include everyone although it may be a bit too close to the tau empire, looks like they are about to get wiped out by nids anyway that setting would actually be quite cool, theyve got 2 hive fleets descending on them, a number of imperial worlds around there, iyanden craftworld is in there with ailoitic not too far away, i dont see any orc worlds but they are like weeds, they just crop up everywhere! chaos are similar, if they didnt want to use the warp storm they could just claim one of the imperial worlds turned renegade/got corrupted by chaos that setting would lend itself well to an mmo, youd have all races trying to fend off the nids as they try and eat everything in their path, on top of that theyd be fighting each other as usual, youve got the poor tau with their whole empire at risk, theres a monolith close by for some necrons coming along to the fight too and the area is quite imperial heavy with worlds, theres a forgeworld and quite alot of imperial military worlds, i think you're on to something there

i thought the new chaos codex just generalised chaos marines but still gave them options for gifts of the gods so you can still create traitor legions, i may be wrong, i know there was a bit of an uproar about it because it allowed you to make completely unfluffy armies, like khorne and tzeentch armies, when those 2 gods are supposed to hate each other (khorne hates psychers and i assume tzeentch dislikes khornes brute force methods) but chances are if they do chaos marines they will just make it black legion so that they can justify having all those different troops fighting along side, if they added demons and demon engines too that would be cool